What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi NXP, We are testing SRRC for kw45 bluetooth boards and it designed by us. When we test RF test, is accour different result by using different FW, connectivity_test and HCI black box. like below: When test Frenquency range, signal send by LE_transmitter_cmd is lower than connectivty test cmd send by LE_transmitter_cmd：01 1E 20 03 00 25 00, result=-36.953dBm/MHz: send by connectivty test cmd："Mode TX, Rate BLE 1Mbps, Whiten Fixed, Channel 42, Power 31, Payload 37, XtalTrim 26> Mod PN", result=-39.23dBm/MHz: It is higher 2dB in connectivity test. Why and how it can occured? and we use the same sounding only different FW. Here is we use: SDK example: KW45B14ZEVK 2.12.7 FW: connectivity test / HCI black box from, which only I change is Xtaltrim=26. MXUXpresso IDE: V11.8.0_1165 If you have any ideas about the commands and how to pass certification, please let us know, thanks. Best Regards, Annie Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
For the spec mentioned by you, we also have test result please see below pic:
And would you mind to speak Chinese for better understanding each other?
您是要测带外杂散信号吗? 可以将您的问题详细描述一下发到我的邮箱：
[email protected]
我把您原始的邮件转发给我们的内部专家团队帮忙看看，避免因translate引起误解。
Best regards，
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? hey Christine, We are not talking the same thing.We are testing Freq Range not Emission in Band. It is not a good solution for us. The specification files we are refering is as attach. I am sure the limit is 30dBm/KHz as below SRRC limit . It meas When we are sending signal in 2402MHz or 2480Mhz, It request power in 2400MHz&2483.5MHz need to less than -80dBm/Hz. And we need to calculate, Power dBm= -80dBm/hz+10*log(100000)= -80+50= -30dBm/KHz, So its limit should be -30dBm/KHz, it is talking clearly in ETSI EN 300 328 V1.7.1 (2006-10).pdf and SRRC number 129. Our SA setting when we are testing Freq Range in 2400 Center Freq=2400MHz Span=10MHz RBW=100KHz VBW=100KHz Sweep time =60s offset=cable loss+Antenna Gain Detector=RMS Max hold You can try and talk to me. Best Regards, Annie Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
Do you have any chance to read my previous comment?
Please let me know whether you have any other queries.
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
Our internal team's test result is similar with you.
Please see below:
But after checked the AN13228, we found the BT limit is -20dBm, not -30dBm.
It means, according to the AN13228's BT limit, we can pass for sure.
Can you please help to confirm SRRC certification limit requirement?
If you have any specification files, can also share us to check together.
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
I found our test result, it seems different with yours.
There is no these 2 little peak in our test results as shown in the below screen shot.
For details, you can also refer to our test report on KW45-EVK.
AN13228-KW45B41Z-EVK RF System Evaluation Report for Bluetooth Low Energy Applications
I have request our AE team help to test again, and at the same time, please share me your detailed test steps, so that we can compare and find whether have any different steps during test.
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi Christine_Li, I have tried your suggestion. But the signal is not what we want. it behaves like umodulation signal. Continuous Modulated Transmission 1's: Continuous Modulated Transmission 0's: Best Regards, Annie Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
It's my pleasure! You are welcome anytime.
I receive our internal team's suggestion, can you please have a try and let me know your result?
Could you please try the transmitter test command with the pattern of all 0 bits or 1 bits? Thank you.
Best regards,
Christine.
Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi Christine_Li, We got the 2M-Freq Range from KW45- EVK. It also behaves less margin in 2400MHz, Like below pictrue, and its power is about 9.8dBm in 2402MHz: The test Way we get from ETSI EN 300 328 V1.7.1 (2006-10) as the attach file. Now we have tunned a matching and the result in 2M-Freq Range is similiar to KW45-EVK. If you have better ideas about the test Way or how to get more margin, please talk to us. Thank you very much. Best Regards, Annie Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
Thanks for your reply.
Sure, please take your time.
And also I have created an internal case to our expertise team. Hope we can resolve this issue ASAP.
If I need any other info from your side, I will leave message to you.
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he Thanks for your reply and your efforts on this issue. Sorry, I am not good at this Power related to certification,. I need to check with our internal team. But as you know, we will have a public holiday from May 1st to May 5th in China, totally 5 days, and I will be back to office 6th of May. I could not reply you in time during this period. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience. Have a nice holiday~ Best regards, Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
Thanks for creating case to us and hope you are doing well.
I will check it and reply to you once have any updates.
Have a nice weekend.
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
These two is built for different examples. For the details inside of these two FWs, I need to confirm with our internal team.
But before that, may I ask what kind of issue do you meet during your certification?
Which FW can pass the certification? and what is the standard of the certification?
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi Christine, Thanks for your reply. Now we are going to get pass the China Ble standard named SRRC. And the issue I meet in certification is 2M-Frequency range fail. When I use Connetivity_test FW, I get the 2M-Frequency range result as below, it is so close to the limit.The Frenquency of Power 30dBm/100Khz is 2.40000GHz=2.4GHz. We do not have enough value to pass the certification: cmd: Mode TX, Rate BLE 2Mbps, Whiten Fixed, Channel 42, Power 31, Payload 37, XtalTrim 26> Mod PN When I use HCI black box FW, I get the result as below, Power 30dBm/100Khz is 2.40065GHz>2.4GHz, Pass : cmd: 01 34 20 04 00 25 00 02 And also, The 2M-suprious emission of 2390-2400 is so close to the limit as below Picture: For connectivity test FW, Power in 2.4GHZ is -30.68dBm, we have no more margin to pass: cmd: Mode TX, Rate BLE 2Mbps, Whiten Fixed, Channel 42, Power 31, Payload 37, XtalTrim 26> Mod PN For HCI black box FW, Power in 2.4GHZ is -33.750dBm, we still have 3dB margin to pass: cmd: 01 34 20 04 00 25 00 02 Our Surrounding: SDK: KW45 V2.12.7 IDE: V11.8.0_1165 FW: connectivity_test &HCI black box thanks Best Regards, Annie Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? And, This Afternoon, I try to change Connectivity test cmd and it can get a better result. Cmd- Burst Transmission using random-payload packets: Mode RX, Rate BLE 2Mbps, Whiten Fixed, Channel 42, Power 31, Payload 37, XtalTrim 26> Packet Mode PRBS started. Press [SPACE] to stop test and 2M-Frenquency Range result as below, there is 70KHz margin: and 2M-Suprous Emisson in 2390-2400Mhz result as below, there is 6dBm margin: And if we can use Burst Transmission using random-payload packets cmd to test certification? What different in Burst Transmission using random-payload packets cmd and Continuous Modulated Transmission pseudo-random cmd and HCI_LE cmd? connectivity test FW cmd as below: If you have any ideas about it, please let us know. Thanks. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
I found this guide in our SDK:
Generic FSK Link Layer Quick Start Guide.pdf
which is located in SDK_2_12_7_KW45B41Z-EVK\docs\wireless\GENFSK\ path.
Please see section: 4.3.1 Continuous tests
So I think we just provide some examples and different modes to customer to choose according customer's preference. About SRRC certification, I think you can choose any modes from them.
Do you know SSRC has any special rules to limit the test modes?
If there is no such kind of limitations, then you can pass it with Cmd- Burst Transmission using random-payload packets.
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi Christine, SRRC may request the duty cycle, but I did not get the specific limit about it. Duty cycle of an old SRRC report in 2008 is demanded more than 10%. I try to send cmd-Burst Transmission using random-payload packets to DUT, it pass. But its duty cycle is less than 10%. So if you have better Ideas about below: 1. HCI black box can support HCIExt_ModemTestTxCmd & HCIExt_EnhancedModemTestTxCmd HCIExt_ModemTestTxCmd: 1Mbps 2402MHz UNMoudulation： Send->01 08 FC 02 01 00 recieve>>04 FF 05 08 04 00 08 FC HCIExt_EnhancedModemTestTxCmd： 1Mbps 2402MHz UNMoudulation： Send->01 27 FC 03 01 00 00 >>04 FF 05 27 04 00 27 FC those cmd we got From other chip platform, if you have similar solution about unmodulation signal in KW45? 2. How to get 2M-Phy Frenquency Range in 2400 lower down? We really need your help, if you have any ideas, please share us, Thank you so much. Best regards, annie Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
Thanks for your reply.
1.For the unmodulated signal in KW45, can you please help to try with mode [6]?
2. How to get 2M-Phy Frenquency Range in 2400 lower down?
==>Sorry, can you give me more details for better understanding? I didn't get your point.
Best regards,
Christine.
Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
I haven't received your feedback in 5 days, do my above comments help you?
Please let me know whether still need our support on this thread.
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi Christine, Sorry, I'm late for your reponse. What I talk may not so clear. 1. I hope to use HCI black box image to send unmodulation signal, not connectivity test image to send. 2.For sencond question, you can know taht 2M-Frenquency range of KW45 fail in China SRRC test. Like below picture, I send 2M signal in 2402Mhz by connectivity test, and its Frenquency Range is more than 30dBm in 2400Mhz. SRRC request in 2400Mhz, power need less than 30dBm. But HCI black box image to test 2M Freq Range, it is easily to pass this SRRC item. But it can not sopport Ummodulation signal. We need a image which can pass SRRC and send unmodulation signal&modulatuion signal. And if you have better idea? And sorry for late again and Thank you so much for your reply. Best Regards, Annie Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
Sorry for my late reply.
Do you have our KW45-EVK? Have you tested with our KW45-EVK?
I am suspect whether it is a hardware issue.
I am not so familiar with hardware, if you have our KW45-EVK, please help to test with it and let me know the result. At the same time, I will create an internal ticket to our expertise team to ask help.
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi Christine_Li, We have KW45-EVK, and I will use KW45-EVK to test its 2M Freq Range with Connectivity test image this afternoon or tomorrow and give a feedback for you. Thanks for your help and reply. Best Regards, Annie Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi Christine_Li, KW45-EVK 2M-Freq Range test result is as below: There is also less margin to the limit(-30dBm) in 2400Mhz. And test way I got from ETSI EN 300 328 V1.7.1 (2006-10) as attach. We have tunned a RF matching and got similiar result as KW45-EVK in SRRC 2M Freq Range. If you have better ideas about the test way or how to get better one, please talk to us, Thank you very much. Best Regards, Annie Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
Thanks for your results.
I have forwarded the test result on both your board and our KW45-EVK to our expertise team.
Once receive any feedback, I will share with you.
I apologize again for my poor RF knowledge.
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi Christine_Li, Thanks you so much. You take much of you time to help us. You can check the test way of Freq Range and if you have any ideas about the 2M Freq Range, you can share with us. And if you have any updates, you can send mail to me or leave massege in this post. My Email is
[email protected]. Best Regards, Annie Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
Did you get any chance to test with our internal team's suggestion?
Please let me know whether it works for you.
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
Thanks for your reply.
I have forwarded your result to our internal team. Hope we can get more suggestions to support you.
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
Thanks for your patience.
I received our internal team's reply as below:
========
Yes, the HCI commands can not generate the pure continuous wave. The frequency of transmitting 1 or 0 has a positive or negative deviation than the pure continuous wave. We can consider it as an unmodulated signal while ignoring the frequency.
=========
Please let me know anything else I can do for you. If you still have any other concerns, please do not hesitate to reply me.
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi， @Annie_he
Anything else I can do for you on this case?
Or do you have any other questions or queries?
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi Christine_Li, Thanks for your attention in this post! But the report that you posted the picture, the power it set is 0 dBm and it is uppper bandege which signal is 2480MHz not 2400MHz. And I do not know the reason it set the minium power. But when we go to do the SRRC certification, we need set the max power 10 dBm. And SA setting is different from SRRC requested. SRRC request Now we found to decrease the power to 9dBm-9.5dBm, we can pass 2M Freq Range in the certification, But there is a little margin, it is stiil dangerous for us. Thank you again. Best Regards, Annie Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
Thanks for your reply, and you are welcome, it is my job to support you.
I have forwarded your feedback to our internal team, our expertise will test today, hope they can share some good news or ideas to us.
Once have any updates, I will let you know.
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
Do you have any chance to read my previous comment?
Please let me know whether you have any other queries.
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
The test result of TX power in band is normal. And it complies with the BLE specification.
Please let me know whether you have any other concerns on this case.
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
Thanks for your reply.
Sure, I will forward your feedback to our internal team and request to continue to support this case.
Any updates I will let you know.
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
Regarding the first question, I would like to add: Are you measuring the radiation mode? Or the maximum equivalent isotropic radiated power? Is it a conducted test?
For the second question, let me add one more thing. As shown in the figure below, are you testing the out-of-band emission band or the spurious emission band?
Because we see that you are testing:
The spurious domain is outside 2.5 times the channel bandwidth
And what you tested is: 2M PHY: 2390-2400MHz. Combined with the figure below, it looks like it is in the out-of-band emission domain rather than the spurious domain?
So please confirm.
Best regards,
Christine.
Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi Christine_Li, Let me give you a brief reply here. The problem we encountered when testing the KW45 SRRC report was that the Ble 2M PHY-2400MHZ sideband power was too close to the limit. There are two limit requirements related to 2M PHY-2400MHz 2400 in SRRC No. 129: 1. The defined operating frequency range is 2400-2483.5MHz, and the equivalent isotropic radiated power at the upper and lower limits of the operating frequency is specified to be no greater than -80dBm/Hz. This test can also be understood as a frequency edge test. The conversion formula is: -80dBm/hz+10*log(100000)= -80+50= -30dBm/KHz. 2. Special frequency band spurious test 2M PHY-2390-2400MHz, the limit requirement is also -30dBm. The test specifications and methods we refer to are as follows: Frequency range test requirements, reference document: ETSI EN 300 328 V1.7.1 (2006-10) Frequency range test requirements and test methods, refer to the document: Bluetooth RF indicators and detection methods The results of our board test are as follows: The firmware is kw45b41zevk_connectivity_test_bm, SDK: 2.12.7 测试时，频谱仪需补的Offset应为cable loss+Antenna Gain 1. 2M PHY 2400MHz 频率边带测试 The KW45 test result of 2M PHY frequency edge 2400MHz is: -30.446dBm<-30dBm, the margin is only 0.446dBm The KW45 test result of 2M PHY frequency edge 2400MHz is: -30.383dBm<-30dBm, the margin is only 0.383dBm At present, the sideband of our 2M PHY 2400MHz is very close to the Limit -30dBm. The KW45 EVK test also has similar results. You can test it according to the method I posted in the post. At present, it is found that adjusting the RF matching cannot solve the problem well. Only by reducing the power can a better effect be achieved. I uploaded the documents used to Attach. Best Regads， Annie Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
Sorry for not replying to you for so long. We just received a reply from our internal team. We still have some questions about your test:
You mainly test two parameters, one is the out-of-band transmission power, which is the maximum equivalent isotropic radiated power tested. This should not be a conducted test, right?
The spurious signal of the second test should be outside 2.5 times the channel bandwidth of the center frequency, that is, 2.4G+-50M?
SRRC Certification: Standards and specific requirements for Bluetooth and WI-FI product model approval testing! _Sichuan Chengdu Third-Party Testing and Certification Agency (wanttest.com)
SRRC certification: standards and specific requirements for Bluetooth and WI-FI product model approval testing!
SRRC certification: Standards and specific requirements for model approval testing of Bluetooth and WI-FI products! "Radio Transmitter Equipment Model Approval Certificate", the model approval code must be indicated on the label of the factory equipment.
Your test document also mentions that you need to test in the spurious domain.
Please help answer the above questions, thank you.
Best regards,
Christine. Re: What difference between Connectivty_test and HCI black box FW? Hi, @Annie_he
Thanks for the detailed information.
Our internal AE team colleagues have been a bit busy recently and haven't replied to me yet. I will continue to follow up and inform you as soon as there is any progress.
Best regards,
Christine.
