Advise needed to program HC908 mcu

[admin]

Hi guys,
I was wondering if anyone can advise me on what would be the best way to go about programming the HC908 mcus through USB, my laptop does not have a serial port and it only has USB. I have read some where that some USB to serial converter does not work properly for this purpose, what I would like to know is what exactly do I need in terms of hardware and software to program the HC908 mcus through USB?

Thanks!

[joerg]

Dear Learner

As i have spent hours trying to get working a serial  programmer for  HC08 devices, the only solution  is:

Buy a P&E programmer for USB or even for LPT! I works and you do not get grey hairs!  (i have already a lot)

Saluti Joerg

[admin]

Hi Joerg,
Thanks for the advise, after the nightmare encounter with the OSBDM we got a PE USBMULTILINK but it is so hard to find HCS08 not only in PDIP packages but also enough I/O pins. Therefore, we're looking at the HC08 mcus.

The JK/JL family has a good number of I/O in PDIP package which is suitable for our application(mainly custom protoype development/testing), since that's the only HC chips we'll be using it does not seem justifiable to get the HC08 USB MULTILINK. Eventhough the price of the MULTILINK is affordable but its price is multiple fold of what other development tools/programmers cost from Atmel, ARM and PIC.

I simply can not understand why this is so, had a  peep "under the hood" of the USBMULTILINK the hardware certainly does not appear that it would cost any where near its asking price when produced in volume; so I suspect it's about recouping the software/firmware developing cost which is fair enough.

However, the price to program Freescale mcus/availability in PDIP packages works as a very effective barrier to keep people away from using Freescale mcus and ecourage consumers onto something else.

Can anyone who have had a good result using USB-Serial laptop setup shed some light on this? 

Thanks in advance!

[JimDon]

"However, the price to program Freescale mcus/availability in PDIP packages works as a very effective barrier to keep people away from using Freescale mcus and ecourage consumers onto something else."

Uniformed hobbyists, true. However 99.00 is a super bargain for professional level gear. It will do HCS08, HC(S)12, and cold fire V1, and compared to many other systems I have used, the debugging works great.

If the price is really killing you pick up a DEMOJM for 47.99. It has a full P&E  BDM, a really COOL usb system on it AND it comes with an LQFP-64  socket and vacuum pen.
Another advantage is it will supply 3.3v from the usb plug to your board.

Get it  from mouser.

Same comment with regards to PDIP - welcome to the 21st century where SMT rules.
No volume customers needs or want PDIP to any great extent.

BTW Futurlec has 64 pin LQFP carriers for .90. Why mess around - go 64 pin. You won't find that in PDIP.

Stick with HCS08.



Message Edited by JimDon on 2008-02-25 11:22 AM

[Lundin]

Believe me, you don't want to use the HC08 family before HCS08. Debugging through BDM is so much smoother than the rather horrible "monitor mode" of the HC08. Since you are concerned of the cost of the BDM pod, you should be concerned of the additional days/weeks of development time you will spend getting the HC08 monitor mode to work properly.

The S08Q families come with PDIP in some cases and have pretty much the same features as the JK/JL, it is only better in every way, and cheaper as well.

Maybe MC9S08QE8CPG? PDIP 16.

[bigmac]

Hello,

---

Lundin wrote:
Maybe MC9S08QE8CPG? PDIP 16.

---

I suspect that Lundin actually means the MC9S08QG8...

Regards,

Mac

[admin]

Hi everyone,
Thank you all for your suggestions.

If there is a Freescale IC wish list on what's desirable, I would certainly have to say please release QG8 in different version with higher number of I/Os in PDIP 20, 28 and 36 or something similar in that range. That would really be the ultimate solution to prototyping/hobbist/student needs, since it has a set of modules that seems to cover most if not all general purpose needs IMHO.

I agree that $99 is not much of a price to pay for a professional package, however in comparison to what's on the market that is what's making the $99 appears to be astronomical; especially to someone that has never been introduced to the feature/strength of Freescale MCUs. The $99 price tag easily convinces any new users to look for anything and everything else, before they even take a closer look on what Freescale MCUs has to offer.
We have no regret in the purchase of USBMULTILINK(RED) especially after the nightmare encounter with the OSBDM, it certainly makes the USBMULTILINK(RED) investment good value for money. For now its the USBMULTILINK(BLUE) which can only be used on the HC08 and cost the same price as the USBMULTILINK(RED HCS08/12) that's got me puzzled.........

In regards to the SDIP package I am not sure exactly what to make of it, I can not find socket nor veroboard that fits the SDIP package to me its not any more of a convenience than any SMD packages. I totally agree that there is certainly no place for PDIP in product volume production but it's certainly a great convenience when comes to prototyping circuits.

I have no idea how much the PDIP factor effects the volume sales but I know  that you can count on Microchips's PIC to be on PDIP and they seem to have something to say about their sales.....

MICROCHIP TECHNOLOGY LEAPS TO #1 POSITION IN WORLDWIDE SHIPMENTS OF 8-BIT MICROCONTROLLERS
 
You can also find a good number of Atmel MCUs in PDIP

megaAVR

8051 Architecture

They also seems to have something to say about their sales

Atmel's AVR Microcontroller Ships 500 Million Units

The AVR don't even include ADC as a standard feature!!???

Personally, I don't think neither the PIC or the AVR 8 bit MCUs measures up to what Freescale/Motorola has to offer but I just don't find many if any programmers using it.






Message Edited by Learner on 2008-02-26 03:46 AM

[admin]

yea, I did start out with the 8031 and I must say I certainly did not enjoyed it in any way.

Back to the subject, we already have a PE USBMULTILINK but are currently looking at the HC908JL8 28pin PDIP purely for the extra I/Os.
I am not too much worried about the extra wiring/fiddle to get into the monitor mode but one thing I do worry about is the reliability/consistancy to get into the monitor mode and loading into flash. I think I have been traumatized by the OSBDM experience, so I don't think I can handle another string of NO CONNECTION to target.

I get the impression that the monitor mode is not reliable and does not even work properly? Is this due to the serial port interface?

Once upon a time when I was using the HC11 with Jbug through serial port, it didnt have all the bell and whistles like CW but it was reliable enough to connect, write to ram ICS and program EEPROM. Can I expect at least the same reliability from the MON08 serial interface with the monitor mode?


Message Edited by Learner on 2008-02-26 06:12 AM

[JimDon]

"Personally, I don't think neither the PIC or the AVR 8 bit MCUs measures up to what Freescale/Motorola has to offer but I just don't find many if any programmers using it."

Volume is no indication of quality

Thats because most Freescale programmers are professionals.

Ask Ford, GM and BMW. I would imagine they have plenty of programmers using them.

But since professionals have already paid their dues, you don't see them on the forums asking
newbie questions (not that there is anything wrong with asking questions, but you should take the
time to study the field, do some research and a bit of reading) Many of the "programmers" you
are talking about are hobbyists. Again, nothing wrong with that, but that is the truth.

Freescale has a large University program as well.
You can down load CW, 32K limit for free. This is a professional grade IDE, as a free gift.
This tool has a learning curve, as do most high end tools, but once you learn it your
productivity will be high.
You have this forum where you can directly talk to Freescale engineers.
Even if you don't buy CW, you can still put in support requests.

Did you even look at DEMOJM? This board is sold at a loss. Most other P&E BDMs are 250.00.
Show me a PIC or AVR board at this price that is this good.

Do you really expect Freescale to make chips for hobbyists?
Pinch yourself. I think you are dreaming.
Freescale welcomes hobbyists here, and anyone here would help you, but Freescale
is a business and has to make money.  I am just trying to point out the reality of the situation.
You are not being realistic.

Order 100k Pieces and you might get the package you want. (of course it wouldn't be PDIP if you were making 100K boards).

They will post a loss this year because their biggest single customer blew it, but not because there was anything wrong with their chips.

These chips are for high end applications, which means the volume is lower, and the prices are
a bit higher. But for what you are doing these prices are nothing - you only need a few chips.
You get what you pay for.

Apple moved to intel, because consumers what cheap, yet Microsoft (Intels bedfellow), Sony  and Nintendo picked powerpc for their game systems. Why do you think that is?

Go ahead, cut your teeth on AVR, twist your mind on PIC an 8051, and then when you are ready try Freescale. If this is just your hobby and you have no plans on becoming a professional, then maybe Freescale is not the right choice for you. I don't know what other hobbies you have but compared to Golf or Scuba diving, this is pretty cheap.

If you decide to use Freescale  this forum will  be here to help you out.







Message Edited by JimDon on 2008-02-26 12:22 AM

[defzonoc]

Well i am a inventor and a hobbyist and my i suggest that we hobbyist noncorprate types can be self sufficient by supporting one another like preassemblers can support complex programming not to mention a complete idiot can make one haven't any of you made a language? You take assembler code snippits that do a function then apply in your program on the PC a symbol the when the assembelr code is output so you just type "print "hi"" and the file output will be the snippit that does the job

example

load acumator with addrs

save to an addrs with output

and repete until all needed is output

easy peasy lemon squesy

just remember amtel and PIC are toys they dont have as advanced instruction sets amtels "equvolent" 8bit is the ATMega chips lack division!!! this means that to do those function you need mutiple chains of instructions to do somethin a freescale chip can do with ONE

or

8/2=4

for a hc908 is like

load acumator with addrs holding 8

dived by addrs with a 2

output answer (4) to next addrs

on a atmega it would be like

load acumator with addrs holding 8

sub addrs with a 2

is it a zero?

no? increment a register+1

sub addrs with a 2

is it a zero?

no? increment a register+1

sub addrs with a 2

is it a zero?

no? increment a register+1

sub addrs with a 2

is it a zero?

yes? increment a register+1

save register(4) to address

ATMega has 14 things to do!! some are 2 or 3 cyles!!!

whereas the freescale has to do 3!

so when you make a 20MHZ atmega it my as well be 2MHZ thats the truth

efficiancey IS speed bet speed is NOT always efficiant as freescale shows in it well rounded componets that are well documented and if you read the pdf files on the chips youll find out for $5 of parts you can do the programing wheras atmega is ok for that as well the power of ATMega is a waste and the pic is as well not to mention to be able to use any pic the programmers are coastly slow and innafective to an end design

[defzonoc]

oh yes P&E programmer works on my pentium 1 laptop 233MHZ just find one at yourlocal dump like me its free and youll recycle something enjoy

[JimDon]

BTW Renesas, who some claim is the 8 bit market leader in sales, offers nothing, 0, nanda, zip in PDIP.
Not only do you know 0 Renesas programmers, I'd be surprized if you have even ever heard of them.

[admin]

So any thoughts on using a USB-Serial converter with the MON08 with a good result?

[aaron800]

I will be glad to design any breakout board for you if you want any of the surface mount chips in a pdip form factor.  I've done this many times. 

Aaron

[JimDon]

Hint: we are trying to convince you to go with the HCS08 family.

HC08 and MON08 are really not the way to go.

Most if not all are "Not Recommended for New Design"  for a good reason, the HCS08 family is much much improved.

Here is a board that is a 32 pin DIP with a HCS08AW16 on it.

[bigmac]

Hello,

Using the HC908, you will find that the debug process is more complex.  This is because many of the pins must be held at a predetermined state during POR, in order to enter monitor mode.  This will usually require very careful allocation of the I/O pins, and will place restrictions on the debug process.

The 9S08 devices have a much simpler interface, and the background debug process is more staight forward.

Not sure how many pins you need, but the 9S08SH8 apparently has a 20-pin DIP version.  For low volume projects, you might also consider the mounting of a TSSOP package onto a suitable DIP header.

Regards,

Mac

[peg]

Hi Learner,

The GT8A and GT16A are available in 42-pin shrinkDIP. Should be enough pins there!