MC9S08SH8 on a DEMO9S08QG8 board

[RogerSchaefer]

I thought I could put a 20 pin 9S08SH8 in the socket of the Demo9S08QG8 board with pins 9, 10, 11,12 dangling in air.  The remaining pins in the socket are the same pinout as the 9S08QG8.  I wanted to program the chip using the onboard BDM but I can't get it to work.  CodeWarrior said it can't connect.

The board works fine with 9S08QG8 chips.  Has anyone used the BDM on this board, perhaps with the 6-pin header, with any 9S08xx other than the QG8?

Roger Schaefer

[Ake]

Hi,

I just got the following statement from P&E regarding running exernal boards/other MCUs on DEMO boards built for one specific MCU.

"P&E's answer is that these BDM Modules are low cost BDM modules that are not intended to be used for anything else other than program the device present on the demoboard. Even attempting to program the same derivative part number but on an external target is not guaranteed it will work.  P&E does not support this and Freescale support should not assist customers who try to hack these boards to turn them into programmers. "

So even if it ought to be possible to run another MCU than the DEMO board was supposed to run with, it might not be possible.

In that case, buy the USBMultilinkBDM or the Cyclone PRO from P&E.. See

http://www.pemicro.com/

Ofcourse there are other companies that make similar equipment.

Regards,

Ake 

[RogerSchaefer]

Thanks for the information Ake.  It seems that P&E crippled the hardware and/or software of the DEMO boards so as to increase sales of other products.  Don't think I will be doing any more business with them.

Thanks again,

Roger

[peg]

Hello Roger,

I am pretty sure others have reported using the QGDEMO to programme other models of device via a 6 pin cable.
I fully agree with and would expect the official response given to you from P&E and Freescale. They are basically giving you this inbuilt BDM adapter for free and so are not devoting any resources to supporting people that want to use it for uses other than what is was intended for.
I don't think it is deliberately crippled though. It seems to update with the same firmware as the "proper" devices (certainly the version number is the same). It does identify itself to the PC software as a demoboard though. P&E's own documentation tells you that it is the same thing. Suggestions have been made that it is and that the demoboards simply lack some of the protection devices as the signals do not stray "off board".

If you believe it is crippled then try to connect to your SH but with a working QG project and allow it to think it will connect to a QG. It will most likely fail at some point, but it should make the initial connection. If it fails to make any connection like this then you have some other issue.
Doing all of this sort of stuff I consider "hacking" and I don't expect the manufactures to support me in these endevours.

[JimDon]

---

peg wrote:
Hello Roger,

I am pretty sure others have reported using the QGDEMO to programme other models of device via a 6 pin cable.

I had done may times in the past myself. Include HCS12 parts.

I fully agree with and would expect the official response given to you from P&E and Freescale. They are basically giving you this inbuilt BDM adapter for free and so are not devoting any resources to supporting people that want to use it for uses other than what is was intended for.
I don't think it is deliberately crippled though. It seems to update with the same firmware as the "proper" devices (certainly the version number is the same). It does identify itself to the PC software as a demoboard though. P&E's own documentation tells you that it is the same thing. Suggestions have been made that it is and that the demoboards simply lack some of the protection devices as the signals do not stray "off board".

It was certainly always true in the past that the functionality was the same, and I'm not sure how they would even detect the fact that is is a demo board, at least reliably.

If you believe it is crippled then try to connect to your SH but with a working QG project and allow it to think it will connect to a QG. It will most likely fail at some point, but it should make the initial connection. If it fails to make any connection like this then you have some other issue.

If something was done, I would assume they did it by part ID, so it should work with an external but same chip.

Doing all of this sort of stuff I consider "hacking" and I don't expect the manufactures to support me in these endevours.

But I think P&E at least should tell us the limits of the product we did buy, so we don't waste time.

---

My boards were not up to date, because I had not used those boards in several months, and I had recently download the latest drivers from P&E for a V2 project. Perhaps I was incorrect about the version number, but I know that all the boards had been used with CW V6.0 and/or 6.1. However, CW updater had not worked for quite some time, so perhaps I missed an update.

I will try this again, but my test seemed pretty correct - could not connect using 2 differernt QE boards and one QG board, connected fine with my Multilink. This was a home brew SH board, I did not try it with ohter target boards. I KNOW I had used a DEMO board when I first built the SH board, because I used the power from the DEMO board. The ML does not provide power (I have a 3 way junction board I use to inject power if I use the ML, but I had not built that at the time I made the SH board).

( I guess my theory about PEG= P&E Group is wrong how about "Processor Engineering Group"?)

[RogerSchaefer]

Hello JimDon, Peg & Others,

Thanks for the work and information. 

I ordered an OSBDM from Witztronics which worked fine when tested with previously programmed MC9S08QG8 chips but did not work with brand new MC9S08SH8 chips.  Brian from Witztronics pointed me to a thread started by Peg two years ago on the problem of getting new chips into Background Debug Mode.  See http://forums.freescale.com/freescale/board/message?board.id=OSBDM08&message.id=136

I intend to add a reset monitor chip to the BKGD PIN on my target board ( http://www.rasmicro.com/DS18B20.htm ) .  When ( if ) that works I'll try connecting again with a preprogrammed SH8 in the DEMO9S08QG8 board.

Roger

[benbeadley]

I'm trying to do the exact same thing with a DEMO9S08QG8 board and a MC9S08SH16CWL (soic-28). I use a 15 inch long ribbon cable from the "BDM-PORT" connector to the controller, connecting to the respective Reset, Bkgd, Vcc and Vss pins of the DEMO board and the processor (Yes, I'm mindful of two extra pins between Vcc and Vss in the MC9S08SH16CWL soic-28 package). This cable/comnnection works fine with the QG8's in soic-8 and dip-16 packages I've used.

I'm using Codewarrior 6.2 for the new chip. I've loaded in a QG8 project into 6.2 and did a make and debug with a QG8 to make sure everything is still working, and it is. Based on a suggestion in this thread, I tried loading a QG8 project into the SH16, on the second attempt it asked me if I wanted to program the flash as usual, then said "The trim value could not be set." At least it looks like it connected to the controller.

I stumbled onto these demo boards for the S08SH series:
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=DEMO9S08SH&fsrch=1
The 16/32 demo board is $79, and I'm willing to go for the $99 for the USBMULTILINKBDM, except for the concern already expressed that it's "the same thing" as on the demo boards - specifically, page 26 of this:
http://dkc1.digikey.com/us/en/tod/Freescale/IntroMC9S08QGSeriesMCUs_NoAudio/MC9S08QG_NoAudio.html
says the USBMULTILINKBDM is "integrated into DEMO9S08QG8 at no additional cost." But of course if it's truly the same thing as on the DEMO9S08QG8 board then I don't want it, because I know what I've got doesn't work.

But from this thread and my experience, I have no doubt the BDM interfaces on the DEMO boards are  crippled "device-specific," and the USBMULTILINKBDM will operate with the SH16. Perhaps to be technically correct, the wording on that Digikey page should be "device-specific version integrated into DEMO9S08QG8 at no additional cost."

[JimDon]

If this turns out to be true it is a new thing, as it did used to work.

As for what they should say, I don't thing it is required that it be stated all the things it can't do. It whats they don't say - they don't say it is a usable BDM, so the customer has no reasonable expectation that it will do that.

[RogerSchaefer]

Well, JimDon, THIS customer had an expectation that it would work across the entire 9S08 line. 

There is the universal 6 pin BDM header and I looked upon the on board BDM interface as little more than a USB controller.  Isn't all the real work done in CW?

Roger

[JimDon]

The real work is done in the P&E dlls that talk to the BDM.

Need I point out that I did qualify it with "reasonable" expectation.
If you had purchased a Multilink, your expectation would be more than reasonable.

[ThomasTL]

Hello, I tried to program a SH8 with the BDM of a AW demo board and it doesn't work. PEMICRO connection manager tells me that it can't connect to the target and in the command logs, i get the following message: cannot enter in background mode. I tried many cycle power without success letting me believe that i'm facing exactly the same issue as yours.

So here is my question: Did buying a USB BDM Multilink off P&E solve your original issue?

Cheers,

 Thomas

Message Edited by ThomasTL on 2009-05-26 11:59 PM

[RogerSchaefer]

What I did was buy an Open Source BDM form Witztronics.  See Message 9 of this thread.  The OSBDM does not set the trim as the P&E does so you need to be careful about that.

Roger

[MR_MCHP]

Hello, I recently ran into this problem after purchasing a few MC9S08SE8 and attempting to program them with a DEMO9S08QG8. In the past using Code Warrior version 5.0 and the DEMO9S08QG  I was able to program other chips off board such as the MC9S08GB60. When using Code Warrior version 6.3 I can no longer program the MC9S08GB60 off board. Just today I tried once again to program the GB60 using Ver. 5.0 and it still works. The issue appears to be with the version of code warrior.

[RogerSchaefer]

I think I have read that in other posts,too.  I would recommend using an Open Source BDM and then you can use the latest versions of Code Warrior.

Check out Wytec for the lowest cost hardware. 

Roger

[JimDon]

Well I just ran a test and it could well be that the latest version of firmware for the BDM locks out debugging a chip that the board was not made for.

- I have an SH board that I built, and neither the DEMOQE or the DEMOQG can connect, yet the Multilink BDM connects and flashes fine.
- When I plugged each BDM one in, the firmware was updated to 5.72 - so perhaps this no longer works.
- I have done this before with this target board and it worked fine, and the target board it self seems ok.

If there is a P&E person monitoring this, please clear this up for us. If you did put a lock you should at least tell us.

[peg]

Hi Jim and others,

I just performed a test with a DEMOGB60 (no inbuilt BDM adapter) a DEMOQE and a USB-ML-12 Multilink.
Both the DEMOQE and the Multilink have firmware 5.72 by virtue of being used with CW6.0. Now I don't normally use codewarrior, but have used it some time ago to do some evaluation of the QE, which explains the updates (6.0 came in the QE kit, I haven't bothered to upgrade).

Now using purely P&E tools I get exactly the same functionality out of the DEMOQE as the Multilink in programming and debugging code in the DEMOGB. The only thing different is the name shown in the connection dialogue window. The DEMOGB is connected (and recieving power from) the DEMOQE via a 6 pin cable in the QE's BDM port. This would seem to suggest that the BDM adapter firmware is not preventing devices other than the boards device from being programmed. Perhaps something in Codewarrior is doing this deliberatley or it is just being too helpful. Have you tried using "Expert" mode?

[edit] Jim, how come your equipment was not already 5.72? It seems to date from at least CW6.0.


Message Edited by peg on 2008-09-15 08:26 PM

[JimDon]

Then you would be missing out on the best made, best supported BDM for this family.

How many BDMs do you think they can sell? It is a very small market. The 99.00 they ask for the Multilink is very fair and reasonable. The demo boards are also very reasonably priced. They practically give away the BDM chip that is on a demo board.

Every issue I've had (that was within the stated support of the product) has been handled by them professionally and quickly.

I must assume you are a hobbyist (no offense intended) because if you were doing this professionally, you would not blink at 99.00 for a BDM. This product does all the HCS08 family, the 12 family and the V1 family.

I want P&E to stay in this market and keeping giving use great support, but if they can not make some money they will not.