Basic "How To" Help

[HIWAYSTAR]

I am new to Freescales products and am very impressed with the vast array of capabilities.  However it would be nice if their support information included a little more help for the novice developer.  I have been an engineer for over 30 years but have only been involved with microcontrollers for the last 5 or 6.  The support information available is quite extensive but most, if not all of it, seems taylored to the highly experienced MCU developer.  In order to help Freescale expand their customer base, it would be a good thing to include a lot more basic "how to" information.  For example, some tutorials on the basic use of interrupts, timers and comparators.  The novice user is the most valuable potential custiomer and the one most likely to drift toward products that have support at their level.  I consider myself a good engineer who is a fast learner but it is human nature to drift to the product that is the easiest to use.  I would like to see a little more basic help to complement the excellent higher level support.  I am also a shareholder who has the best hopes for Freescales continuing success.

[JimDon]

That's a very large request, becuase it is not possible to know where each individual is is thier understanding.

Not sure I know of any chip maker that offers a complete course in MCU's that explains the use of vs how to use.

However, you could a good start with Freescale 8 bit mcus with the book:

"HCS08 Unleashed: Designer's Guide To the HCS08 Microcontrollers " by Fabio Pereira.

AmazonL HCS08 Unleashed

[HIWAYSTAR]

It really isn't such a large request to include some basic tutorials on some of the device capabilities.  I was not suggesting that Freescale teach comprehensive lessons from the beginning.  Just include some of the basic information on using MCUs.  Take for example the subject of interrupts.  It is such a versatile feature of the MCU that to try to encompas all aspects of using interrupts would be a career in ahd of itself.  However, a few programming examples with explanations of the logic behind the technique used would be of interest to almost any engineer wishing to incorporate MCUs in his or her designs.  Even the power users and experts could benefit from some of the simple things.  Even if for no reason other than to look at a way of doing something from a different angle.  I have found that no matter how knowledgeable I become on a subject it is always informational to look at the basics from time to time.  I have learned things from novices in subjects that I consider myself an expert at simply because they did "it" differently.  My main objective in suggesting this addition to their support pages was to help freescale develop a potential customer base in the novice user.

[JimDon]

Well, the only problem with your theory is this:

How do you figure that a novice user would make any difference (apply this to any other maker of MCU as well) to FSL's customer base?

Novice users do not order 100,000 parts or even a 100 parts for that matter, highly trained engineers do.

Publications are created to get sales.

FSL has a very active University program, and participates in many educational programs, but I am willing to bet that training novices is not considered a very wise investment of the share holders money.

Also, FSL publishes many (free) training materials, videos and application note, none of which are for novice users. Got to be some reason for that.

It makes sense that FSL marketing would invest in something that could lead to actual sales, and I don't see how your plan would do that. I would think that FSL marketing would have done that if it would produce sales.

My gut feel is it doesn't.

[HIWAYSTAR]

That's just closed minded thinking.  How much "investment is it to have a support person write some tutorials?  When I say novice, I mean "highly trained engineers" that are interested in using MCU's that have little or no experience with them.  I was not refering to onsey toosey hobyist users.  I consider myself somewhat a novice MCU user after 5 or 6 years in desigining and programming MCU circuitry.  My last project at work before retiring netted Microchip an order for a 1/4 million MCU's.  A very influential part of that decision was based on the simplicity of the introductory information I gleaned from their support pages.  I'm not touting one manufacturer Vs. another, but I totally disagree that the financial risk of generating some tutorials for the novice user would not be worth the reward in the long run.

[rocco]

Hi Highway Star,

---

HIWAYSTAR wrote:

. . .  I'm not touting one manufacturer Vs. another . . .

---

Well since you mentioned Microchip, I will compare manufacturers. I have used both, as well as many others, and the two are as different as they can be.

Microchip is very novice-friendly. Their tools are simple, and work right out of the box. The silicon is relatively simple as well, and is therefor easy to learn. That is their strength, and has won them many designs.

Freescale is more sophisticated. Their development tools attempt to do a lot more, and are therefore harder to use (much harder, imho). The same can be said for their silicon. Their strength is in how much more you can do in the final product.

Over the years, I think Freescale has given up on the novice. They have given up on a lot since spinning off from Motorola. They will get things working for you, and may even write some of your code for you, if you are an auto manufacturer. If you, like I, do not move thousands of units, then you're lucky to have a sales-person return your call. Having said that, I usually do get reliable answers through service requests, and I've filed a lot of them over the years.

So I only use Freescale where appropriate, and do the same with Microchip, AVR and ARM. But I don't depend on any manufacturer for most of what I need to know - It is something they just don't do well. I don't think they will ever spend the resources to do it well, and that is a shame. But it is what it is.

So I would invest in one of those books that Jim pointed toward, or do a little hunting on the Internet.

And of course, You can always post any questions here. You will get answers.

[peg]

Hello

Well rocco has articulated exactly what I was thinking, having followed this thread so far.

In fact it is difficult to think of anything to add other than agreeing.

One point is that as we are this far down the track and, for example, Freescale and Microchip have done what they have done, the chances of Freescale suddenly deciding to provide novice support is never going to happen. It makes so much less economic sense now.

Another way of seeing whether anything is going to happen on this front will be sitting back and watching Freescale ignore this thread on their forum altogether.

On another note, Interrupts are actually quite a simple concept. The amount of words used so far in this thread would have given an exhaustive account of how they work and how to implement them on Freescale S08 processors.

[HIWAYSTAR]

I agree with most of what has been said so far.  Peg I agree with you that Roco's very eloquently summed up.  This has been an interesting (at least to me) discussion.  I just wanted to reitterate that I was not suggesting that Freescale provide the novice with everything in the way of learning materials or hand holding.  I was suggesting that it wouldn't require a lot of effort or finances to write a few simple tutorials that may spark an interest in a few engineers that may someday be placing large orders.  I agree that it would be a waste of Freescales time and money to jump into a major learning campaign for the novice.  My intent was to suggest that it couldn't hurt to plant a few seeds.  Since I am relatively new to Freescales products and hence Freescale as a company, I was not aware that Freescale had given up on the novice.  Incidentally, I was not seeking the information for myself necessarily as I have enough experience and drive to adapt to the complexity of Freescales products.  I did however order the book that was recommended.  One can never read too much. 

Yes, it will be interesting if Freescale picks up on our discussion or ignores it completely.  I did mention the idea to a friend of mine who is fairly high up in Freescales management food chain in the 8 bit sector.  He seemed to think there was some merit in my suggestion.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.  I appreciate your time and enjoyed the discussion.

[JimDon]

Well, you guys did a much better job of saying what I meant to say.

I don't know if I would say Freescale "gave up" on novices, I think that as the user base matured and the functionality got more sophisticated, the bar got raised on what the manufacturer put in documentation. When you had your 6809 or Z80, you had to say something to burn 400 pages :smileyhappy:. A chip makers job is really to document how the chip works, and with all the different flavors of MCU's that Freescale makes, that's a huge job. Just fixing the errata works for me.

TI, which is a good comparison for Freescale (as you noted, Microchip and Atmel are a different class) offers no more in this area.

I also agree on the subject of interrupts. I think you could squeeze a chapter out if you also went on to explain the finer points of what you should and should not do on an interrupt thread and how RTOS switchs the context to return to a different thread, but that's about it.

I would also like to point out that when the book I mentioned was published, FSL bought a number of copies to help the author out and gave them away at an FTF. So that's one way they do support the novice.