topic Re: NFC in NFC

NFC

ZHELI1 — Fri, 21 Jun 2024 05:24:32 GMT

Hi NXP team,

Hello, I would like to ask, can the PCA943X connected to a coil directly obtain energy from the phone's NFC, or is another chip needed?

Thank you!

Re: NFC

Tomas_Parizek — Fri, 21 Jun 2024 06:33:28 GMT

Hello ZHELI1,

Good question!

The PCA943X is mainly used in ecosystems including an MCU + NFC Tag. For your application, the NTAG5 (Link or Switch) might be used. The NTAG5 has a very nice capability of energy harvesting.

What is your power requirement?

Tomas

Re: NFC

ZHELI1 — Fri, 21 Jun 2024 07:02:04 GMT

Hello Tomas,
Previously, I used the NT3H2111, which could provide around 10mW. However, for my scenario, I need about 80mW. Can the NTAG5 provide such a high power output?
Thank you

Re: NFC

Tomas_Parizek — Fri, 21 Jun 2024 07:15:38 GMT

Hello ZHELI1 ,

NTAG5 can provide up to 30mW. But do you need any NFC communication or only pure energy harvesting?

Tomas

Re: NFC

ZHELI1 — Sat, 22 Jun 2024 08:27:55 GMT

Hello Tomas,
I haven't heard from you for a long time. I hope you are well.I am not using NFC for communication, only for power supply, to power a rotating platform that requires 3V and 25mA of current.
Thank you

Re: NFC

Tomas_Parizek — Mon, 24 Jun 2024 06:06:41 GMT

Hello ZHELI1,

For your application, You can consider the following structure (see the attachment).

For the rectifier diodes, I would recommend PMEG3005AEA.

Tomas

Re: NFC

ZHELI1 — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 12:09:26 GMT

Hello Tomas，
This means I don't need to purchase any NFC chips, right? If I still need a little bit of data transfer, does it mean there are no suitable NFC chips available at the moment?
Thank you

Re: NFC

Fabian_R — Tue, 25 Jun 2024 22:50:13 GMT

Hello sir,

This is Fabian from customer support.

Could you please help us by explaining a little more your application since we are a little confused about it?

From what we understand you are looking for a power harvesting application that is able to output around 80mW. Is it possible to decrease this output?

Now regarding the data transfer you mentioned, over which interface are you looking to transfer data, a wired or through RF?

Thank you very much for the clarification, please remember that the more information we have, the better our recommendation will be.

Re: NFC

ZHELI1 — Wed, 26 Jun 2024 01:58:36 GMT

Hello Fabian
Thank you very much for your response. Here is my requirement: I need an NFC chip that can be connected to a coil I made to form a resonant circuit and use a mobile phone for both power transmission and data communication.

It should be capable of outputting a current and voltage sufficient to drive a rotating disc (requires 3V voltage and 25mA current).
It needs to support a sensor system (including an MCU and an accelerometer) to collect the acceleration information of the rotating disc. The collected acceleration data should be transmitted directly to a mobile phone via an I2C interface, meaning the NFC chip should support wireless reading.
Therefore, I need an NFC chip with high power output. but other products currently have a maximum output of only 30mW(NTAG5 AND NT3H2111).
Thank you!

Re: NFC

Tomas_Parizek — Wed, 26 Jun 2024 05:23:38 GMT

Hello ZHELI1 ,

I was just referring to your last post :

"Hello Tomas,
I haven't heard from you for a long time. I hope you are well.I am not using NFC for communication, only for power supply, to power a rotating platform that requires 3V and 25mA of current.
Thank you"

For that scenario, you should be OK with the energy harvester I provided last time.

About NFC chips supporting build-in energy harvesting. We offer NTAG I2C (energy harvesting up to 10mW) and NTAG5 (energy harvesting up to 30mW).

But if your design requires NFC communication, you can extend the energy-harvesting circuit with the NTAG I2C as shown below:

BTW. what should be your reader? Do you plan to use a mobile phone?

Tomas

Re: NFC

Fabian_R — Wed, 26 Jun 2024 22:36:53 GMT

Hello sir,
Unfortunately, we don't have any other device that is able to deliver this amount of power besides the PCA943x. Regarding the I2C interface, please keep in mind that this is a slave device. On the other hand, CRN120 is also a T2T that can be read by the Smartphone.
My apologies sir but, I believe there isn't a single solution device that will fill your needs.

Re: NFC

ZHELI1 — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 02:02:51 GMT

Hello Fabian,
I have already purchased the PCA943x through official channels, but I don't know which two pins connect to the coil and which two pins connect to the output. Is the usage similar to the NTG5 and NTH2111?
Thank you

Re: NFC

Fabian_R — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 22:49:06 GMT

Hello sir,

Unfortunately, the use of PCA943x requires rectifier diodes as shared by Tomas (06-25-24).

Additionally for the communication, the matching circuit needs the NTAG or a CRN120. Please request access to AN12641 for further hardware guidelines.

Unfortunately, these are restricted to secure files, to get access to them, please follow this guide: https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/user-guide/nxp-secure-files-user-guide.pdf

I hope this information may have been useful.

Re: NFC

ZHELI1 — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 04:23:56 GMT

Hello Tomas，
Yes, I am using a mobile phone for reading. Hello, I would like to ask, in this diagram, is Cp used for resonance? Then what is Cs used for (energy storage?)? And is this 0-ohm resistor used for a jumper? I tested this device yesterday. After the antenna and capacitor resonated and matched, I aligned the mobile phone NFC with the coil, and then connected the output to a small LED light. This small light intermittently lights up, and the brightness is not high, not even as high as the energy provided by the NFC chip (10mW).
Thank you

Re: NFC

Tomas_Parizek — Mon, 01 Jul 2024 06:29:09 GMT

Hello ZHELI1,

You have to tuned the NFC antenna using CP and CS to approx 13.56 MHz. For that, the Vector Network analyzer has to be used.

Cp defines the resonance frequency and Cs the system Q factor. The 0-resistors are just for disconecting the rectifier. This might be good for the development phase.

Tomas