topic Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink? in 8-bit Microcontrollers

Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

carloscuev — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 09:59:38 GMT

I have the DEMOQE Board, it says it has a embedded USB Multilink. In fact it installs with USB Multilink Drivers.
I have tried to program a QG8 (through an aux bdm 3x2 header) and it didnt work

The question is... Is it possible? Or embedded USB Multilinks are limited to a single chip/family ?

Thank You very much

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

peg — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:52:28 GMT

Hello and welcome to the fora, carloscuev,

I have a special interest in this subject and from my memory of all the many posts on this subject it seems that this used to work and now it doesn't. That is when these demoboards with inbuilt BDM's started coming out you could fit them with the header and use them as a general purpose BMD adapter. There are now many reports more recently that it does not work with any device other than the device the board is built for. i.e. you can use the demoboard as a BDM for another custom board fitted with a MPU but the MPU must be the same type as the demoboard is for. Some more official claims to this effect have been made here also.

I will test this out soon to end this once and for all. I suspect that this is a deliberate hobble and is not due to any technical limitations. I also suspect that it is only a problem if you use later BDM firmware or later CW versions.
There are, for instance, many reports of using QG demoboards as general purpose BDM's. I don't have one of these, so if someone could confirm this using CW6.2 and let us know. (This should result in the demoboards BDM firmware being updated as well)

If you take a real BDM adapter (P&E USBDM) and connect it to a device but tell the software it is something else it will still connect and you will only get in to trouble when you try something that is effected by the differences between the chips. There is no (or very little) difference between the BDM modules on the different S08 devices.

I have made similar claims to the above here on many occasions and noone has shot me down yet!
Please feel free to do so if you feel I am wrong in any way here.

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

carloscuev — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:21:59 GMT

In fact I installed CW 5.1 and... IT WORKED!
with the acutal CW 6.2 it doesnt...
The 'not very nice' thing is that CW 5.1 doesnt support as much devices as CW 6.2
I need to program KA4/8 devices that are not supported by CW 5.1

I'm tracing the problem trying to find a solution. So far I've found that the limitation is inside a DLL:

{program files}\CodeWarrior for Microcontrollers V6.2\prog\P&E\ICD08z_dll_v156.dll

Im looking for a way to disassamble that dll to turn the limitation switch off
but I thinl im a lillte lost... Hope somebody could help me

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

carloscuev — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:01:23 GMT

Also works with CW 6.0 !!
I'm trying to find CW 6.1 to test it.

Theres no KA8 in CW 6.0
Im starting to think that it is a simple bug of the new multilink ICD interface (it changes dramatically from CW 6.0 to CW 6.1) I really wish it

Im also downlading the "PE Update" for CW 6.2 located here
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/overview.jsp?nodeId=0127260061788213CF49A4

I wish that could fix it
If not I will suspect Freescale wants us to buy USB-ML-12... that would be way baaaad. I thought FS was not that mean

Well, lets wait for results...

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

carloscuev — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:08:59 GMT

PE Update was Processor Expert Update...
not P&E Update

bad,bad bad... Any links to find CW 6.1 ?

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

kef — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 02:08:52 GMT

RS08KA needs 12V for programming. QG demoboard doesn't need it and may have ->12V step up circuit eliminated..

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

carloscuev — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 04:15:49 GMT

it can be provided externally

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

peg — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 06:15:56 GMT

Hello carloscuev,

This is what I had thought, although I was worried that it may have something to do with the BDM firmware.
This would cause a problem in that when CW detects a BDM adapter with a older version of firmware it automatically updates it to the version it knows about. You would be forever re-flashing your BDM adapter.
I don't normally use CW and don't even have a 6.x version installed. This would explain why when people have said this does not work previously I tested it and it worked for me.

It would seem the best solution would be to work out what on the BDM adapter identifies it to the PC as a certain type. As old USB Multilinks still accept new firmware and were built before this new ID scheme was put in place it is possibly quite easy to make the demoboard BDM appear as a Multilink.
If this could be done it might be possible to "fix" the demoboard once and then it works forever, surviving updates etc.
Don't have the time right now to investigate this myself.

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

carloscuev — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 07:09:11 GMT

The latest firmware is not a problem. My DEMOQE board was updated to v5.79 firmware yesterday and it programs QG8 in CW V6.0

I'll be really grateful if someone could upload CW v6.1 FOR ME

I think CW v6.1 supports embedded multilink, And Iwant it really bad

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

carloscuev — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:52:33 GMT

After some research and empiric tests I've managed to find a solution:

Simply put this DLLs:
http://freescale.teknoplex.com/descargas/P&E_DLLs.zip

Inside Here:
C:\Program Files\Freescale\CodeWarrior for Microcontrollers V6.2\prog\P&E\

Be sure to backup original Files !

Enjoy!

Message Edited by carloscuev on 2009-01-21 01:49 AM

Message Edited by carloscuev on 2009-01-21 01:49 AM

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

peg — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 07:35:23 GMT

Hello Carlos,

Just for reference I searched my computer for prog08*.dll
I have installed:
CW3.1, CW5.0, CW5.1, CW6.0 and the standalone version of the Expert mode programmer that is included within CW.
This DLL appears only to be associated with Codewarrior and not the standalone application.
These are the version numbers:
CW3.1 has 1.26, 1.29, 1.35
CW5.0 has 1.37
CW5.1 has 1.40
CW6.0 has 1.49

The zip file you attached is named 1.54 but inside is 1.56. Where is your mistake?
Perhaps you could fill in the rest of my table above.

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

carloscuev — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 07:45:42 GMT

CW3.1 has 1.26, 1.29, 1.35
CW5.0 has 1.37
CW5.1 has 1.40
CW6.0 has 1.49
CW6.1 has 1.54
CW6.2 has 1.56

In order to replace succesfully the CW6.1 (v1.54) files in CW6.2 they have to be renamed with the original name in CW6.2, that is:

ICD08z_dll_v156.dll
ICDrs08_dll_v112.dll
prog08z_dll_v156.dll
progrs08_dll_v112.dll

it REALLY works. In fact I'm programming right now QG8 in CW6.2 using embedded Multilink in DEMOQE

With original DLLs I couldnt. With CW6.1 DLLs now i can.

Its running flawlessly !!!

Message Edited by carloscuev on 2009-01-07 11:46 PM

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

peg — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:31:06 GMT

OK, that clears it up.
Good work!

Now all that is needed is a reason why this is so from Freescale/P&E.

Message Edited by peg on 2009-01-08 11:33 AM

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

carloscuev — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:43:16 GMT

I would like some of you testing this hack to program HCS12 and RS08 uC's
I'm having some RS08 next week. I'll try directly with embedded multilink alone and also with external 12v source (maybe a maxim capacitor pump, i like those )

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

carloscuev — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:58:28 GMT

Well, HCS12 devices will need another hack in CW HCS12 Edition. I hope this hack can be ported very similar for HCS12 version

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

nimblemachines — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 05:46:50 GMT

Hello carlos and peg!

I'm very interested in this subject as well. I don't like the idea of black-box dev tools in the first place, and I esp don't like the idea that when I upgrade my compiler, that it intentionally breaks hardware that used to work - hardware legitimately purchased, and in theory perfectly usable. I'm talking of course about the embedded USB-BDM interfaces on DEMOxx boards. :smileywink:

Learning about this new "feature" of CW 6.2 irritated me enough that I just wrote a blog post about it. I would love to see the Freescale user community really put pressure on Freescale to both explain and remedy this situation. They pride themselves on being the most ethical company in the business. I think this situation merits some self-reflection on their part...

Peg, you mentioned in passing something that caught my eye: you said "I don't normally use CW". Are you actively programming Freescale chips using some other tools? Could you share your thoughts?

I'm pretty actively pursuing building an interactive Forth system that targets the S08 - and later, probably the CFV1. I would love to see an active open-sourcey hardware and software community grow up around these chips.

I should say as well, thanks for your work on the USBDM. I haven't built one yet, but I'm likely to use or borrow some of your hard work on this!

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

peg — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:29:30 GMT

Hi nimblemachines,

nimblemachines wrote:

Hello carlos and peg!

Peg, you mentioned in passing something that caught my eye: you said "I don't normally use CW". Are you actively programming Freescale chips using some other tools? Could you share your thoughts?

I use P&E's software to programme mainly the GT series within the S08's. The programmer part is the same as what you get in "Expert" mode within Codewarrior. I mainly use a USB Multilink USB-ML-12 Rev. B with V5.79 firmware as my interface. I have absolutely no trouble substituting this for the DEMOQE board sans daughter card (V5.72 at the moment).

One has to wonder why Freescale, who has given valuable support to the OSBDM, is either actively discouraging using these demoboards or allowing a third party to do so. The only reason for this seems to be to support this third party's ability to sell more hardware. I thought Freescale was in the business of selling semiconductors.

Perhaps if more people voiced their opinion on this, maybe they will discover that this was just a bug in the drivers supplied with CW6.2 and it will be quietly "corrected" in the next release.

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

celsoken — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 21:41:01 GMT

Dear Peg and nimblemachines,

I think the best explanation for all this is that P&E and Freescale got an agreement based on that P&E would provide an embedded multilink for extremely low cost in Demo boards BUT it would be processor-specific tool.

I've been watching P&E for over a decade and I think they need to make money too. Some of the tools they develop take a lot of time and engineering effort (no, I am not in P&E payroll). And there are other companies also working on this market like Axiom, Softec and so on.

If Freescale boosts free tools like OSBDM they have the risk of loosing these third-party supplyiers that - after all - provide the ability to develop tools in short time. One strategic move for Freescale could be buy P&E (remember Metrowers) and offer the tools technology for free.

I just wrote these words because I was a little upset because of the declarations, they did not sound ok to me.

Cheers,

Celso

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

rak63 — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:15:15 GMT

Hi Carlos!

Y try it with a AW60 and it works fine with the QG8 demo & CW6.2 with 6.1 dlls.

Thank you!

Regards

Roberto

Bs. As. - Argentina

Message Edited by rak63 on 2009-02-26 11:17 AM

Re: Embedded DEMOQE BDM is a full Multilink?

peg — Sun, 06 Sep 2009 05:54:51 GMT

Hello all,

The previously attached file seem to have disappeared. (I think there over behind that grassy knoll)

I have attached them here separately this time as Freescale have reduced the max file size.

ICD08z_dll_v156.zip

prog08z_dll_v156.zip

Message Edited by t.dowe on 2009-09-08 09:33 AM